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2020 - in ‘Distributed Moment’, Index foundation for contemporary art, Stockholm
Kind thanks to Lili Huston-Herterich, Xenia Klein & Mmabatho Thobejane for their spoken contributions.

Blending extracts from a recorded conversation on revolutionary strategies with musical tracks by trans artists as an echo to a video projection.

With the following tracks:
Arca - Non Binary
Arca - Vanity
Bjork - Lionsong (Juliana Huxtable Remix)
Kablam - Innominata
Lyra Prymuk - Xeno
Planningtorock - Human Drama
Ziúr - Laughing And Crying Are The Same Things (feat Zhala)
Ziúr - Are We?

This piece is not for commercial use.


But I


guess I

but I don't know.


don't know. But I kind of

know that I

I don't know.

We have a little bit of tangents. But he's

just like practice that please have some ice doing this.

Because it's so much nicer

Sorry I interrupt you?

Yeah, again blaming SSA for the status quo and understanding the status quo as

a systemic oppression that serves only a minority of people.

And the prison system, that's a minority of people. So.

Yeah, and I mean, but then I guess, then,

you know, when we say, like,

you know, we won't know what we won't be free until everyone is free. But then I feel like maybe that's tied to like some kind of socialist understanding that everyone should be equal. which I believe, but it's also one way of what we see as the way forward is that not everyone sees it the way forward. And so it's like, really interesting activity. But I mean,

Other questions?



Thanks, things that the buyer is carrying, because

this is

the second

thing, but then then decide what

to do. I mean, it's just become the common library photography, like,


Like, I don't know how that

it's so easy to become.

Like this, I think

it's so easy to become the thing you're fighting, because then you become I think you become so

like, the movement felt, it's really

disappointing because in some ways, there were these moments where we all realized how much the system was embedded in us. And so we we created the logics.

That can be a woman silenced.

Woman sexually abused in that space. Trans people were like, excluded. You know, it was just like,

it was

like, how can you ever created something new? Like, I think Jonathan, didn't we say this as like Jonestown? Like, you have to ask what you want to create. And you really have to look at what you have when you are like, because I feel like what you're talking about, that's happened in so many different contexts that like they want to

become becomes the same thing that they were against. And I guess it's like,

I don't know. I don't know like

so maybe what some of you

like against rejection, like, just want to be like, look what you talks about that sound like self awareness, then like, the shadow guy we were talking about, like, when would you be like, aware and then the activity as the construction had like an active subconscious

We were talking last time about like trying to find new forms of

wildness or being alive or being together which we can ultimately create like new cell structures and production. We can't afford it that way. But you need to kind of base it on something, but you need

this thing where we're talking about the originals. And I think you just mentioned that it's about being exposed to different

ways of being together and that fruit, like crazy mutation. Yeah, we talked about this. Yeah, that's

nothing like we can talk. I think that was really

maybe this version is just like being

around each other and letting each other live as long as no one has

to just accept all different kinds of ways.

Resolution sometimes speaks the language that is like the capital's language covers like progress, which relies on like progressing quite quickly and like visible progress happening within the timescale that fits are also having tension. The moment that the horse unfolds and reveals the the Coronavirus or the uninvited guests. That's like one moment and maybe actually there is like

it's so satisfying to see that

even if it doesn't change the whole system, like because I think we need some simple techniques

like defunding the police giving people basically a

simple solution

don't like the energy that's going to like the policy the budgeting, right? It's like what

the moment

the leaking Trojan horse like maybe it's like

there's a hole in it slowly

they know like it's not like it's a new thing like they know what we're gonna do we're gonna March and we're gonna say we don't like this and like, like, they don't fear that like now I guess you know, the in the US is taken another proportion another dimension. But like, if it's if it remains peaceful and like usual.

If it remains peaceful and usual then like, I feel like there's no threats or like there's no fear for them.

But I was also thinking about demonstration actually not being for the politicians, but rather being for

the people who are experiencing their togetherness, particularly people that have never demonstrated before. Like, I feel like it is some kind of like passing on.

Yeah, he was, he was like describing his experiences, like, I've never felt anything like that before. I've never felt like these, like, what I find is like really conflicting, like, emotional experience of being in a crowd of people that are there. For the same ideology, I find that like, in my body, sometimes it feels dangerous. So I'm like, what are we missing here, if we all agree, that's kind of like a terrifying, like, that's like, that's like quite vulnerable space, if everyone around you agrees, and you're like, this is maybe always like, means for me to like, pull back. But I think that there's like, the demonstration has, like, its moment, I think, for that purpose, especially for the people who know, I need like a,

like, some kind of solidarity or some kind of like, likeliness that they can, like, have the power and the confidence to like, carry forward with what the demonstration is representing. It's like, through associating and mobilizing so many good things come out of that, too, like, on the way to achieving that goal. And so like, that becomes almost the process becomes just almost just as important as what you want to achieve at the end. The protests can be

they were you

just end up doing that you

wouldn't dare to do or



as the most

significant part

of the system

is exclusionary?

Yeah. I think

in my like, public experience of protest,

so many people just want to protest. Yeah.

episodes, and not to the

actual like, like disabled people.

And what happens in that sense that you were all like, creating this new world without them. So then it's like, whatever, it has to be at.

Publix like being like public, which is, like,

necessary for protest, like, occupying public space, or being public or being underpaid, like performing outwardly, this kind of

action or like, performing your ideology together means necessarily that there is like the counter private, that then is either being

specifically not represented, or is being represented in the way where it's like everything that we're putting outside here is what's happening in the private which is a misrepresentation of those two spaces, the lack of visibility of some

people and but also like, so, I don't know some people have suggested you know, having representatives in Parliament for like, the forests and the oceans and like to because they don't have a visitation and they're like important in in you know, in how we all coexist so a reminder of this even though it's like an executive session, like

creating visibility when to compensate like some kind of

inequality or something

I think that's also why social media was interesting because

it's so easy to care for a family and

their children was a thing is just like

I think it's like

almost like a practice to care for the learner related to like

if you What is your when you felt a minority because you just know so many people are in the same struggle in some way. So it's

some kind of also systemic isolation or like separation that a family unit is only a family unit because not only but it for the family unit like by necessity excludes

anyone outside exactly exactly right it has like a wall that is okay we define family unit and that makes the state a lot more it makes the state a lot more powerful because yeah managed by more relevant. So, that gives them more relevant because they can say okay, we identify we we we help you as a family, we recognize those walls and therefore, we can like safely kind of quantify how much money we give each how each family are being measured. And then also we can trace them society

runs better and more efficiently if we participate in like a heteronormative monogamous care structure where we like identify and know where to direct our care and our love in one monogamous for one like direction in relation which also, therefore, like slips, like systematically isolates us in which it makes us a lot more difficult to be able to change but then also to be able to, like spread ideology and make a we create a we that is not a we that is the definition of best friend, my children, my family lineage. Yeah.

Which also would mean like,

like I imagined, then living in like,

whatever we used to say, like living in a community in which like, co parenting that isn't like related to blood could exist. Yeah, which ends up meaning that this unit, which is like a child unit, minimi, is already complicated, because they're receiving very early on so many subjectivities that,

that kind of, maybe would end up meaning that their pattern in relation to these ships or their pattern and like relating to people

function differently.

I think part of the revolution is to change the school system. Yeah, like completely like,

or I was and the approach like the government the bigger pedagogic approach to like, what is learning and like imposing like, sitting down for eight hours a day like to be told what to do? Because

like, the private space for like a quiet space could be like the place where if we're talking about the family, and so if there is like a child that's going to the public school system, because that's the way that it that's the easiest way to get a child educated, if you're both having to work or whatever, if everyone has to kind of work in the system because of their, their lack of access, or their lack of privilege. Then there still is some kind of space in which like, sort of like yeah, that is the school but we don't treat the school

district there is there is room like to call in the stealing, like the activists

like concepts back to them and as you know,

that's the choice.

Yeah, it took me

I just

didn't think I could have

That is disgusting. I hate that. It's disgusting.


Yes, storytelling. Yeah, exactly. Then it's more about maybe the sub shifting, of course, consciousness.

I mean, maybe that's the like leaking Trojan horse.

Like it doesn't explode and everyone's murdered at night and it's exactly the leak is, you know,

Usually like, exists more than the explosion or lightning version doesn't really do that much in the end sometimes. So maybe try things out a bit in small groups or like in smoke in on the local, like local councils or parts of the city, like trying things out. And then that can also be like

a tool to change things like there's like, yeah, again, this kind of like temporality that's discrete or not made visible or not made, but not not popularized or not, like, kind of feeding into an attention span, that is actually an attention span that is for like, that is against life in this way. A lifelong practice. That is like a continued and live one that is also like a one that is active every single day.

That Yeah, yeah, sometimes it's visible that most of the time is it's not No. But it's still performance. Regardless. Yeah. It's still uniques still affects people.

And it's also open to infection.

Like equally important, I think, addressing, like,


oppression, just because again, like what I said last week, is that

once we have all of these things, I mean,

I think it's the most damning relationship. Executive executive, like once we do have like, police are gone. And once the, we have like, basic income, and we have all these like things, definitely that will Foster's face,

neck world, but then it's also like,

being those people now.

Actually, if we had just systems, we mean people who can live and we will be people who live in perpetuity.

Yeah. But then, and I think that's extremely key. I think that's really important, this notion of like a subject of being completely tied to a picture, and systems in general. But then, I guess, in this moment, me, it feels like the most important thing because I'm thinking of how we are to each other on a day to day, and how that in itself could be like a little, these little revolutions. And in this context, as we create a society this is this is connected to you can see the nature of human beings, you know, I'm sure that I give any credit, just system things would go down and like not everything would be perfect. But I am the minute something the system is fixed. Yeah, just sort of perpetuates. Yeah. So it's like the whole thing about if I ever have children, or if I'm ever involved in like, the next generation in some way, I hope that they think I'm a loser and clueless because like, that would mean that would mean that something's that something's been like mutated and then like, something's happening, right that like, I don't expect my generation Not that I expect any progress, they definitely like change. That is definitely like everything.

As people have seen in this compensation,


I mean, we make use of the tools of a system but then we are existing with having this kind of conversation.

it's good at this point like the language is breaking down, I'm not breaking down.

languages have different thresholds and like tolerance is pretty gender


it's an expression an expression of

all the questions


Yeah, that is the school but we don't treat the school as a church.

Everyone has a role in revolution and protest also has its place

maybe once the knee above

that it's close social.

I can't imagine virus

the transfer or if it's in a decision needs to be

approved and then

throw it in front of another company. We're all like, creating this new world without them and you're just risking being alienated but then you're still being sustained within the systemic view and capitalism still. So there's these like local ways in which you're, you have to buy into it because by dimension politics and system as people having this given this conversation, we're a little Trojan horses. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, we make use of the tools of the system, but then we are existing with having this kind of conversation.

I do what I want to do what I want to do with

it some random mix shapes. Yes. trimmed the waist and the waist down.

As friendships.

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